03-08-24  •  Yes, Crime IS Down


Ope: At least there is some good news for Biden. Crime is down.

Rene: Wrong! When crimes are not reported or de-criminalized, that just makes it look better on paper. The acts are not decreasing, but they can claim the crime rate is "down." They base those numbers on convictions, not arrests. Distorted truth for their followers.

I can't find any evidence that NYC - unlike every other municipality in the country - is compiling their crime statistics from convictions. They seem to be counting reported incidents, compiled at the National Incident-Based Reporting System or NIBRS, like everywhere else. Where did you get this idea?


Rene: Crime is not on the decline. These big cities have District Attorneys that simply don't bring charges against migrants. If you don't prosecute crime, It's like it never happened.



First of all, yes, crime definitely DID plummet in 2023, in cities across the nation, with exceptions. Secondly, crime statistics absolutely ARE compiled from reported incidents, not from prosecutions or convictions. Would you be opposed to reading a bit about it? Here are some sources I found while looking into this:

US sees record drop in yearly homicides despite public concern over crime
ABC News Report on FBI Crime Stats

FBI's national standards for incident-based reporting:
FBI Services

No migrant crime wave - 2024 crime data shows overall crime levels dropping in cities that have received the most migrants
No Migrant Crime Wave

Now I'm not going to say that Uncle Joe is personally responsible for the drop in crime. Crime rates rise and fall in very unpredictable ways that are barely related to spending (which always goes up, even though crime goes up and down.) But I think there is a political narrative here, that Democrats are bad for crime, or that migrants bring crime, that I don't think is supported by the facts.




03-05-24  •  Biden over Trump


Nona: I think I might vote for Trump. Not because I think he's going to do well by the country, but because I think America needs to shake up the status quo.

I believe American Democracy is strong enough to survive.

Thoughts?


Wilma: Biden is so old, I'd never vote for him!


Here's my take. I don't love Biden but he will have my vote in the general and here's why.

First - Age. I don't think there is anything that applies to Biden in terms of old age that does not apply equally or more to Trump. When it comes to wandering in circles, babbling incoherently, blanking out and getting names wrong, I've seen both men do plenty. However I have seen interviews with Biden recently, in the last week or so. He spoke clearly, answered questions intelligently. He spoke in multi-syllabic words and complex sentences at a higher reading comprehension level than Trump ever has. Yes, he's old, but he is fully present, and has an understanding of the functions of government and the levers of power from a lifetime of public service. He knows it like he breathes and that kind of experience makes it possible for him to function effectively, despite his years.

Similarly, I would rather have the office of the presidency run by an experienced man with competent team of administrators who respect the government than by a gang of sappers like Bannon, Miller and Conway. Biden has people who can make up for his lacks; Trump doesn't.

Which brings me to my second point - The Men. Biden spent his whole life as a public servant, taking the train every day from Wilmington to DC. None of the claims that he is using his office for personal gain have ever amounted to a hill of beans, and the main accuser was just arrested for making the whole thing up. Say what you want about him, there is just NO evidence that Biden is crooked. He seems like a decent human being who cares about something other than himself and who has clearly given his entire life to it. That is what Biden is.

Compare that to a lifetime spent bilking contractors, defrauding banks, trading up wives and grabbing women by the pussy. From using the presidency to enrich himself to constantly leaning on people to literally stealing from the archives, to cheering on the "Hang Mike Pence!" crowd, Trump has no apparent moral compunctions of any kind. He functions constantly for greedy self-gratification and is happy to grift his own supporters to spare himself from legal consequences. That is what Trump is. It's all about him.

Which brings me to my third point - As President. In the last three years we have had to recover from a pandemic, riots and an insurrection, so we had a lot of lost ground to make up. Biden had an uphill climb, but some significant things have been accomplished. He brought microchip manufacturing back to the U.S., inflation is coming down, domestic energy production is up, the economy is strong and jobs are being added. (That's not really surprising. Historical data shows that the economy functions better under Democrats.) We have new infrastructure and green energy coming online, and crime is way down all across the country.

It's far from ideal, of course. The gun, housing and border crises remain. Our economics are exploitive, and ordinary people have no real representation. But in day-to-day terms, things seem to have turned around from the pandemic and begun to move forward. Despite political differences, there was a plan for the border that had broad, bipartisan agreement. We can expect to see more of that if we continue forward.

I can barely compare the years of quiet, steady recovery to the violence and turmoil of the Trump presidency. The constant reality-bending agitprop from Day One, forcing Sean Spicer to insist that his inauguration crowd was bigger than Obama's when the whole world could see otherwise. Trump lied like a psychopath, continuously, about everything, creating chaos that cost lives; he obstructed justice; he leaned on world leaders like a street thug. Worst of all, he made it acceptable for a huge rise in hate groups and hate crime, which more than doubled from 2018 to 2019.

Which brings us to the real problem with the Trump presidency. His movement is fascist. That is not an insult; it is the political science term for reactionary movements with authoritarian leaders who promise to restore Greatness by scapegoating. Here are Lawrence Britt's 14 characteristics of a fascist movement - recognize them?

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
Supremacy of the Military
Rampant Sexism
Controlled Mass Media
Obsession with National Security
Religion and Government are Intertwined
Corporate Power is Protected
Labor Power is Suppressed
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fraudulent Elections

This was written in 2003, long before Trump hit the political scene. It's a predictable pattern. Democracy has fallen to the rise of fascists in other nations. And the United States is the most powerful nation in the world. If we are not checked by democratic norms and laws, we could create a terrible devastation. We should not give that power to fascists, period.

Please, feel free to disagree, but that is what I see. We do have a chance to prevent the rise of fascism and that is why I'll vote for Joe this fall. Thanks for reading.




02-29-24  •  The Queen's Advisor


Bella: If they decided to make you queen of a new country tomorrow, and you could only choose your three advisors from this discussion forum, who would you choose?

Wendy: Only three!?

Sally (Ethics and IT), Quarterly (law), Julia (spiritual and agriculture).

Anon: MomofSons and Sally.

Anon: Sally, VeganMom and BaconBits. My country is going to be awesome!

(Note: Sally is me.)

Thanks for the votes of confidence Ladies! I would find it hard to choose. I value all of the voices and viewpoints here, even ones I disagree with. So, my first declaration as Queen would be that my existing Council of Advisors will be accepted in toto, lol.



02-22-24  •  The End of Democracy


Quarterly: One of the speakers at the CPAC conference said that yes, they ARE actually trying to end democracy, in favor of "This," he said...and held up a cross.

We have to be ready for what comes next if these people get elected.

Big Elle:So, he’s an idiot… We’re still going to be fine though. Neither the democrats or the republicans are trying to destroy the country, even though they’re both pushing that narrative hard right now.

How so?


Big Elle:The biggest narrative both far left and far right are pushing is:

THEY are going to destroy the country
They’re going to be the downfall of America
They’re going to take away our rights
We can’t let that happen
We have to stop them
We have to prepare for them stealing the election
We have to prepare for what comes next….

That’s both sides word for word. It’s unneeded.

Everyone says the other side wants to end democracry, but I promise, we’re all going to be fine whoever wins.



These Republicans say THEY want to end democracy, not Democrats. Believe them?


Big Elle:Republicans as a whole do not want to end democracy, regardless of what this idiot says in his speeches.

These Republicans do not represent republicans as a whole any more than the democrats who think republicans should be sent to reeducation camps represent democrats as a whole.

Quarterly: So we should just ignore what is being said at the largest gathering of Republicans because "they don't represent Republicans"? Republicans are poised to renominate (by an overwhelming margin), a man who tried to steal the last election when he lost, and who feels to this day he did nothing wrong in doing so.

Big Elle:Democrats believe that, Republicans don’t.
Republicans don’t think he did anything wrong, Democrats think he did.

That’s why they’re willing to re-elect him.



How is that okay?






Quarterly: He objectively did something wrong!

Big Elle: Again, Democrats think he did, Republicans don’t.


Again, how is that okay? Do you agree?


Big Elle:I’m ok with it because it doesn’t matter if I’m ok with it or not… does that make sense lol?

It’s not something that has anything to do with what I believe nor does it matter what I believe, it’s what they believe and no amount of me being upset about it is going to change that.

So instead of trying to get Trump off the ballot, Democrats should have picked a better candidate, because them continuing to divide the country like this will never work.

What of the truth? Do you really think everyone should just fuhgeddaboudit?

And since you know the truth, how are you okay with the insurrectionists regaining power?





Big Elle: I think if we don’t move on we’re headed towards a civil war...or we're headed for seeing violence if we don't let this go...

Republicans just don't think he led an insurrection...

Please forget "what Republicans think" for a minute and speak for yourself. You know that Trump refused to concede the election even though he should have, and he had his lawyers create confusion in the electorate when they knew there was no evidence of wrongdoing. You know that Trump tried to pressure state officials like Brad Raffensburger and Rusty Bowers to "find him more votes," and that he arranged this scheme to send fake electors, and that he pressured Mike Pence to overturn the election for him, and was okay with his supporters hanging him.

Either people know all this, or they are in psychotic levels of denial about it. That is what is putting democracy in jeopardy. How do you figure everything will be fine if the insurrectionists return to power? Do you think they will start respecting democracy?



Big Elle: I know all that… I know all that, *and* I know that it doesn’t matter what I think.

It’s like those “If this, then this” problems they have in anticipatory anthropology classes..

If the premise is - All nonbelievers are in a state of denial, then there isn’t anything that will change that. As the last two years have shown us… every time trump gets another court case, his supporters get more emboldened, not less.

If the premise is- He broke the law, so his name can’t be on the ballot, then there will be half of the voting population who disagree and possibly become much more violent than what we saw Jan.6th. They will believe that their right to vote has been taken from them. That is when populations hold “uprisings”, as history has always shown us.

If the premise is- We can’t have him as president again because he might become a dictator, then the only way to avoid that happening without violence and civil war-type of hatred being held by both sides, an alternative candidate needs to be chosen by either the democrats or a third party candidate that both republicans and democrats can accept as a non-threat to themselves.



So, go along with their dangerous delusions, or they will kill you? And if they do, it's your own fault, for not "letting it go"?

No, giving tyrants whatever they want so they they won't kill you is NOT preserving democracy. And it's not "fine."



Big Elle: They don't believe he is a tyrant. You can’t just think about this from the perspective of your own opinion, nor can I. It won’t work to solve any problems.

No, this is just me, talking to just you.

I'm asking how it can be "fine" with violent, delusional people with no respect for the law in charge. When they are the head of every department, and the judiciary and legislature are corrupt, who will hold them accountable? By what means? When they control elections, who will make sure the vote is counted fairly? When the "pillow guy" - or someone even more delusional - has a cabinet position, what will happen to YOUR rights?




02-15-24  •  Where We Went Wrong


BinnyBunny: I don't need to hear this crap about "reparations." What people need to quickly learn in today's society, that should be common sense, is we are not our ancestors. Today is different than it was then and we are not those people. We are not responsible for their sins. Stop feeling guilty for what other people have done. History is there for us to learn from and not repeat.

I don't think anyone thinks "we" should feel guilty for what other Americans have done. I certainly don't, but it really has nothing to do with my "feelings." The fact is, the country that we belong to, OUR country, was responsible for deliberate atrocities.

That doesn't mean it's our fault. Of course it isn't. But, we still have to deal with the aftermath of the atrocities, because they happened in our place, in our culture, and our fellow citizens today are still experiencing the negative effects.

We didn't cause the problems, we inherited them, but they are still our problems. That can happen. And it's our responsibility to solve those problems, because they are in our lap. That's why we might have to DO something, even though it's not our fault. The question is, what's the right thing to do? That's all.



BinnyBunny: What aftermath of atrocities are you thinking about that we need to deal with today, and what are the solutions?

BinnyBunny, thank you for asking.

The past atrocities that are hurting us the most today, in my opinion, are those of slavery/segregation and manifest destiny. In order to maintain such policies, earlier Americans had to cultivate extreme bigotry among the majority population. Humans have an innate sense of fairness; in order for a whole culture to practice systems that enslave and encaste others, or systematically remove them from their land, we had to maintain a deep, culture-wide creed that those others were sub-human.

In the U.S. up until the 1960s, within living memory, this creed was maintained by ritual contamination laws, ie segregation. It was legally ended in 1964. But, we can't erase centuries of caste with the stroke of a pen, for two reasons. The first is that social success is generational. Systematic, racial denial of access across decades, from real estate redlining to the war on drugs, means that large numbers of non-white families are generations behind in getting established in the middle class. The second reason is that cultural attitudes and behaviors of othering - hatred, slurs, hazing, excluding - don't change quickly. Even people who don't consider themselves racist at all can show lingering unconscious bias.


The result is in every statistic. On average, people of color have less generational wealth, are more often denied financial services, are under-represented in leadership, are over-policed and more likely than whites to be in poverty. That's the aftermath of the atrocities we need to deal with today.

I think the solution is to repair the damage. I don't think we can wait for time to fill in the hole; we should act to fix the breach. We didn't cause the damage, but the wreckage is all around us. We shouldn't ignore it. Our main job, IMO, should be fixing the holes that this country created with the cruel and inhumane policies of the past. That is the only way we can live up to our founding ideals of equality and self-government.

However, I don't think we even need racially-defined programs in order to do this. Everybody who is poor and left behind is being harmed and exploited, no matter their race, and their deprivation hurts us too, and should also be fixed.

What would work to repair the damage and allow us to move forward would be to end *all* poverty.

Thanks again BB!




01-24-24  •  The Caste and Project 2025


Laura: Project 2025 is a takeover plan for white men to turn back the clock on civil rights and all progress in this country.

AvaMom: How dare you blame White Men! You’re absolutely wrong to suggest that White Men who stood up against Trump don’t mean shit… You’re absolutely wrong for even insinuating that someone being a White Man would mean they are at all oppressive in nature, it’s absolutely disgusting that the millions upon millions of White men in this country who have spent their entire lives standing for justice have to simply accept being vilified by people like you!

It's not the demographic of Caucasian men, it is the power structure of the White caste that is the problem. Some Caucasian men support that power structure and some don't. A lot of Republicans do. A lot of people of every sex and race and ethnicity do. Because of the power structure, Caucasian men benefit the most. That doesn't make them all complicit. Only support for the power structure makes anyone complicit. So it's self-selecting.


AvaMom:So… just for clarification here since y’all believe we are a nation which operates through a caste system…

Why would you think “the White Caste” is at the top?
Does the white cast make the most money out of the races? No…
Does the white caste have the fewest incarceration rates? No…
Does the white caste have the best acceptance rates into college? No…
Does the white caste have the most educated population?No…
Does the white caste have the lowest unemployment rates? No…

Lol if there is a white caste, they’re coming in second place ?? you’re not the Brahmins, you’re the Kshatriyas, lol.

Of course, why do you think they are so threatened? When legal enforcement of their superior status ended in 1964, suddenly they had competition and started losing, lol.


AvaMom So you would agree… the “white caste” is not at the top then.

And just for more clarification because I’m not too good with understanding the caste system, when it comes to the “Asian caste” do they count as people of color, or are they their own thing?

Just to be clear, the extremely wealthy are not even in the caste system, not really. Racial castes are just a distraction to keep the masses busy while the elites make off with all the wealth. Really. They were invented in 1677 in the wake of Bacon's Rebellion to keep the masses in racial conflict so the colony elites could control them. Class is an even worse power structure than caste.


AvaMom I thought you guys were defending the idea that the replacement theory was hogwash? I was totally onboard with that…

But now y’all are arguing that there’s a white caste that got competition and were taken out for the top racial caste spot… so they were right about being replaced, but wrong about whether or not they should care?



Wow, no, that is not what I am saying at all.

The caste system ended in 1964. There isn't a new "top racial caste spot". Equality is now enforced by the government. If we continued without a caste system, and had basic prosperity, the lingering privilege and prejudice of that system would fade naturally in a generation or two and we would have pluralism.

However, for one, we don't have basic prosperity, so people are anxious, defensive and tribal. And for two, the moneyed elites do not want anything to stand in the way of their accumulation of wealth and power, especially a strong government that enforces equality.

So, to rile up the former in service of the latter, we have Project 2025.



AvaMom Ok… so we don’t live in a country with a caste system.
And equality is enforced by the government.
I totally agree with you.



Then Project 2025 should horrify you.


AvaMom As far as basic prosperity, that means free education, healthcare, food and shelter for all those who can’t pay for it, right?

That's part of it. It also means freedom from economic anxiety and enjoying the benefits of prosperity - leisure time, pleasant, well-kept surroundings, lots of chances for fun and growth and culturally significant experiences, access to higher education, strong social mobility, and economic conditions that favor the worker.

It would take some work to really reach this, but don't expect that work to continue under Project 2025.




01-18-24  •  Political Violence - Who's Responsible?


AvaMom: The problem is that violence, fear and the attempt to force their views is the modus operandi for both Republicans and Democrats…

If the Republicans don’t like something they’ll bash the doors down, assault those who try to stop them and pretend that God wanted them to do it…

If the Democrats don’t like something they’ll burn down the neighborhood, destroy the infrastructure they don’t feel ownership of and cement a building full of people shut as they light it on fire.



Are "Democrats" responsible for the BLM riots? Did they encourage or condone it? Who?


AvaMom: Democrats are as responsible for those riots as republicans are for Jan. 6th.

How? Didn't you say just a day or two ago that “you can’t expect to control other people’s reaction to your racism”? By that measure, obviously no one is in control of the reaction to the George Floyd killing, least of all the "Democrats" who, after all, fight for racial justice.

But if you want to blame them, since the BLM marches were over 93% peaceful, I think "Democrats" also get credit for all of the millions of people who marched peacefully all over the country, amazingly peaceful even in the face of lifelong, terrible social injustice. The Democrats are just as "responsible" for every one of the millions of people who protested that summer and did it right - that should count as a 93% win for peace.

Most importantly, a political party is responsible for what its leadership supports. The Republican Party, at the highest levels, has largely been supportive of, or at least accepting of, the events of Jan 6. Prominent Republican politicians and media figures have downplayed the violence, spread misinformation about it, or even praised the actions of the insurrectionists. Most Republicans in Congress voted to ignore it. The few Republicans who called it out were drummed from the party. By contrast, Democratic politicians and media figures almost universally condemned the violence and destruction that occurred during the BLM protests, and called for peaceful demonstrations instead. And today, Democrats are not trying to put the people who caused the violence in power. Repulicans are.

That is why it seems ridiculous to suggest that "violence, fear and the attempt to force their views is the modus operandi for both Republicans and Democrats…" when it was Democrats who tried to stop the violence and it was Republicans who called for it.



AvaMom: They are the one and the same. Did you ever have one of those dolls that had one face and color outfit on one side, and you could flip it over to see a different face with a different color outfit? That’s the Republicans and Democrats… they look different, but it’s the same doll.

Actually, I think this is true in many ways. Both parties are in the bag to the wealthy and that's all there is to it.

But, I don't think "Democrats" did anything to cause the BLM riots the way Trump caused Jan 6. That's not a helpful comparison.



01-18-24  •  The and The


Deirdra: Did you know that you are supposed to pronounce the word "the" in two different ways? If the following letter in the next word is a vowel, it’s pronounced “Thee” .

As in, there was no parking close to the opera.

If the following letter in the next word is a consonant, it is pronounced “Thuuh”

As in, The cat sat down.

I can’t believe so many adults don’t know this.

Wendy: Why should we know it? We speak the language we have been taught, who was taught this?

OldGal: Well don't expect me to start doing this now. When I'm engaging in a conversation and happen to need to use the word "the", the last thing I'm considering is where the vowel or consonant is placed after my use of the word. I can't be moved to care.



This is exactly how we already do it without even noticing. It's like "a" vs. "an" - automatic. I don't know anyone who doesn't.


Carol: What? Nobody does that. People don't go around in casual conversation saying "We are going to thee opera."

That is exactly how everyone here says it. West Coast. Like, we are going the thuh store after thee end of our show. Never hear "thuh" end.


Carol: Yes after seeing you write that sentence I would say it that way also. You are correct.




01-12-24  •  Race vs Caste


AvaMom: Look at this article in the Washington Examiner. King Arthur Flour is doing the Bud Light Challenge! They are trying to prove how "woke" they are by having a baking contest that is for people of color only - no white people allowed!

Laura: I'm cool with that. It's for a promotion with Project Potluck, a group that elevates bakeries and food businesses run by people of color. No big deal.

AvaMom: Can't you see how racist this is!? If it was any race other than white being excluded, you would think it was totally racist! Time for another boycott!



(my reply:)
















AvaMom: You know what would eradicate every and all privileges anyone might have?

Treating everyone equally.

If you think you can make that happen, please go ahead, but you are starting on the wrong end.


AvaMom: Equality isn’t a teeter totter … it would require play on a flat board…

Humans have never seen a flat board before, ever in history, and we are trying to build one from scratch, in the midst of great challenges. It's hard and it's not happening all at once. This baking contest is not hurting that effort, it's just providing a counterweight to the great inequity in the meantime.

Getting the readers of the Washington Examiner all up in a tizz over this, and stoking the narrative that the real problem in this country is racism against whites, is actually hurting that effort.


AvaMom: Some people joked that white women can't cook!

Okay, but the baking contest is NOT an example of racism. It's not any kind of problem; it's actually a nice thing. An organization that was created just to help people of color break into the food business got a major corporate partner and can provide more opportunity than ever. This should be a small but positive story.

Instead, it's being put on blast, portrayed as reverse Jim Crow, and boycotted. Worse, it's being added onto a pile of similar burning outrage over nothing that matters. So a trans person drank this beer! So a dance company supported BLM! Those aren't bad! But they burn in the hearts of those who are told that this hurts them. And all for one, very stupid reason - to make that pile of hate and bile tall enough to elect authoritarians.

This is actually a problem. The propaganda about reverse Jim Crow and the woke mind virus, etc., is turned against every effort to prioritize diversity and mend historic wrongs. And so those efforts are going to be risky, sparse and neglected. And then nothing changes, we're back to status quo, where people of color are disproportionately underrepresented in the food business and in so many other ways. The demonizing, the boycotting, the constant outrage, is all to prevent power from being more equally distributed, and leave it right where it is - not in the hands of whites, per se, but in the hand of the rich.

That is the real problem. Please don't help them.



AvaMom: That is how you feel, and I understand that.


Other people in the country feel that if they ( or others) are specifically barred from entering contests, jobs, opportunities ect because of their race, they have witnessed racism…

They feel that for a very specific reason - because it is being memed and blasted in language that mirrors Jim Crow in order to get the most outrage possible.

And the reaction across conservative media is disproportionately outraged for one contest. Where were all these boycotters when Walmart systematically robbed Black truck drivers of millions of dollars? Did they rage for days on social media when Starbucks had two black men arrested for using the restroom? Did they stop buying GM when the company was found to have "whites only" signs by the restrooms?

If you are saying these are just social justice warriors who will stand against any corporate racism no matter how slight, then no. They get very upset about what they are told is very upsetting. It's actually a deliberate effort to make white people feel more aggrieved and put upon, because that is the established formula for electing authoritarians.







AvaMom: If anyone In The country is excluded based on race, that is the definition of discrimination.

Equality is the definition of fairness… if you want equality to be a reality, you have to treat people equally.

Can you see no shades of gray? When when "White people" discriminated against "Black people" it was with hate. It was a society-wide, culture-deep, centuries-old system of brutal oppression and dehumanization meant to show power and suppress individuality and hoard privilege and prevent any chance of growth or advancement or equality along any avenue.

Do you seriously think that Project Potluck is acting with hate? Do you really think this baking contest represents social and cultural exclusion designed to oppress and humiliate and dehumanize? Is this really hoarding privilege, or preventing any person from experiencing growth or advancement on any avenue? Does this really threaten equality and fairness?

They are not the same and this constant equalizing is distorting the truth.

It's distorting it so much that this innocent baking company is now hated like sin, condemned like filth. There was no hate until then. It's the hate that's the problem.



AvaMom: No, I see no shades of gray when it comes to equal treatment amongst all Americans! I think if there is ever an instance of racism, it should be challenged and shot down.
If you cannot see the real problem - the hate - you will not be helping.


AvaMom: That whole “we are not the same” line that y’all have been saying lately is oddly enough the exact same sentence I see on all the racist republican shit too… as far as American law goes, we are all the same.

Quote what I really said.


[Really stupid side chatter about capitalizing "White" vs "Brown" or "Black"]


The term "White" has practically nothing to do with race or ethnicity. It is a caste, and it's based on who can pass, nothing more.


AvaMom: Weird, isn’t it? I think anybody should be able to identify as anything they want...we're all equal regardless of hue.

No, it's not weird, it's heinous. The identity of White was specifically constructed to be the upper caste in an apartheid society.


Laura: We have to achieve equity before we can achieve equality. Maybe this will help:



AvaMom: We are not automatically born on a higher platform because of our white skin! We are not smarter, we are not more capable, we do not have better parents, we are not richer because of it.

Of course there are communities that do need extra help. People who grew up in poverty, people who grew up in foster homes, people who grew up with disabilities, people who grew up with a single parent, people who grew up with abuse, people who grew up without educational access.

None of those are based on skin color.

But you are ignoring another huge disadvantage that totally exists and it IS based on skin color and that is not being in the upper caste. That's not implying any difference in the inherent worth, talents, abilities, goals, etc. of individuals, and you know it. But there is a disadvantage that comes from not being privy to the lingering privilege of the caste system, which only ended in 1964. Project Potluck wants to address THAT particular disadvantage and as long as it exists, people have to address it. Pretending it doesn't exist, or doesn't matter, is ignoring the one huge thing that is causing most of those other problems.

I know you feel you have to "call out" the "racism" of this baking contest, but conflating this with the actual historical caste system is making things far worse. These well-meaning organizations are now the latest subject of the Two Minutes of Hate, and that reaction is way more harmful to society than the baking contest ever could have been.



AvaMom: Oh my God, you are not in a higher caste than they are!

You are not still the upper caste while they are the lower caste due to a lingering system…
The caste system ended in 1964. Before that people in this country were in castes based on nothing but skin color and the problems of that system remain.

This is what it looked like:




AvaMom: We are no longer at the point where you can look at the color of a person’s skin to preconceive their place in our society. Whether that means financially, educationally or how privileged they may be.
That's far from being able to say that no one suffers any ill effects of the caste system any more. They absolutely do.


AvaMom: If there are any individuals that deal with hardships, they should receive help. We should no longer categorizing those groups by race.

Yes, everyone SHOULD get what they need, but they don't. No one should discriminate against people by race, but they do, and as a result, it's much harder for people of color to succeed in the Consumer Packaged Goods industry. What are they supposed to do, just wait?

Of course not. The people at Project Potluck have navigated those same exact prejudices and found strategies to overcome them, and they want to help others who are facing what they faced and overcame. People with a problem in common like to share solutions and help each other, and it's a fuck of a lot better than being shut out of an important industry. It's a worthwhile effort.

I think you are ignoring a *much* bigger problem, which is the insane, over-the-top and graphically bigoted response to this flour company, and other "woke" targets. It's an absolute frenzy of hate and slurs and cursing unto the seventh generation. People don't just choose another brand - they shoot up cans, threaten violence, vandalize Wikipedia, and spew horrid social media commentary out of every orifice. If they are so incensed about racism, how come so many say "But King Arthur was white!" And again, where is this virulent anti-racist brigade, to whom this contest means reverse Jim Crow, when there is systematic racism and hatred against people of color at Coca-Cola, Tesla, Walmart?

If you follow the arrow of hate in the direction it is going, this is far more indicative of white bigotry toward people of color than the reverse, much greater and more damaging to society than the baking contest.

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